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lostlabyrinth.com :: View topic - binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)
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binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)
http://www.lostlabyrinth.com/phpBB_1/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=658
Page 2 of 2

Author:  Grunz [ Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)


Author:  binaryman [ Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)

- Alternate Timeline limit: it should be 1-3x, and the only reason for possibly 3 is I have heard some levels generated are "unsolvable" (mainly the outdoor ones), if this gets fixed (so there is a definite path every time even on special levels) then limit 1 means you can fix your own mistake if you caused level unsolvable (example: disintegrate the exit haha).

- Deathgaze: OK so "unlucky" is NOT a flaw I want to take, if I want the 90% chance (caps 5 = 25%). In fact, you need increase 15->20 through Luck perk, which explains why Xuande had taken it. Star Blessing will get me +5 eventually, and there is a Luck spell adding Power value to Luck, it's feasible to reach 18-20 = 90% resist. For the other 10% bad luck we have Reincarnation.

- Stone: There is the spell to Protect, is it 100% resist? Does Luck also roll in a similar way like with Death Gaze? Reincarnate should work if you get hit with this, since you said all death types are covered by it.

- By "hidden monsters" I meant the ones that are on the map but not yet spawned (they will pop out later randomly). Meaning, there is a fixed amount of monsters in a level, then no more (except ambush with chance each turn, unless using Song of Loneliness). So it is possible to "clear" a level to make it safe so you can explore it fully.

- Traps: Normally I run unobservant, so the detect % is useless in that case. Otherwise, to run Ethereal and NOT risk losing your turn to traps, you need Sense Traps to cap 90%, and then you need the skill Trap Lore to remove them as you move because in Ethereal state you cannot cast a spell to remove them manually.

- Sense Traps: Oh wow, I didn't realize that one was more powerful than Trap Alert (which is higher level). If you have it, you don't need Trap Alert after all.

- Remove Traps: is the radius = Power? If so, Arcane Power gives it +12 radius to start, so it removes many traps even though it is expensive to cast.

- Poison: "Other schools only can prevent getting you poisoned" -- wait, which spell from other school does prevent it in the first place? Or you meant just removal of poison fields?

- Syphon 1/3: yes at cost 9 (Elder Magic), it is hard to pay for itself at 1/4, so this will help its value a lot.

- Extend: it seems to be about Power * 5 / activespellcount? It is good to know that Power does increase it.

- Invisibility: Xuande mentions it can work with Sneak, but I assume the chance to pass a monster undetected is still capped 80%? But for stopping a turn a few spaces from a monster, is it max 80% or 100% they will not *see* you and react?

- Cure Poison/Curse of Others: YES! You can use it on yourself! With Arcane Power, I suppose these versions would reduce the poison/curse turns more than the earlier ones? Or do all of these type remove it completely regardless? It gives me another chance to get with Free Magic if I didn't get the first one, which I didn't realize.

Author:  binaryman [ Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)

I tried some tests, including using most magic schools and get to high Circle to test spell effects.

Sight Effect:
- Perception 15 with no other light/skill provides about 2 tiles radius sight.
- Sunlight + Perception 15 provides large radius but still sight blocked by walls
- Must not be Short-sighted and must use True Light to see entire view
- I do not think even Night Vision + Perception (20) + Any light spell other than True Light does this, so to get this effect "see beyond walls" 11x11 tiles full view, True Light must be taken as spell pick

Cartography + Monster Sense compensates well for Short-sighted or not choosing True Light spell. It is partly for safety (I think Monster max ranged/spell range is 4 tiles like the player?) but also to see the map layout and then Dimension Swap with monsters strategically you do need to see monsters out to max range.

Fighter test (No Magic, but no other Flaws):
- Can't really operate without Swimming. It's trivial for Mage with spells, but it's very hard on Fighters.
- Even without flaws, food is a major problem. Even with Merchant + Heirloom, although water can be refilled, there are simply not enough Food items sold to allow you to explore the entire levels.
- Cobweb wastes many turns, and Strength doesn't seem to help so I assume Dexterity is needed here.
- No way to avoid Magic Traps, no matter the skills, can be frustrating.
- Very dependent on items found and sold = less control. All the merchants I found on the map carry limited stock = bad. So I had to get Merchant trait just to get food+starting weapons at all.
- Monkey Grip + 2 weapons + fast attack is powerful combination, if you can get Attack + Strength up.
- Armor Mastery is essential. The plate mail it comes with does prevent most damage for many levels, but also since Fighter is so equipment-dependent, he must put on all found armors to help, but cannot afford Encumbrance on move (more food use) or stats.


Deal with monsters:
- Temporal Rift is cheapest if no resistance/low resist
- Blow Away is cheapest if banishment resist/low magic resist (I think only Magic resist applies here?)
- Fork + one of the above, if low-mid resist
- Penetration + one of the above, if magic resist is high, is cheapest
- Alternative: Sneaking, since I run Invisibility, but you need to be in lower-HP form to really be good at it. I also suspect, stronger monsters can lower your % so you cannot keep it at 80% on higher levels. Still, for long time only having to use Mana to kill 20% of monsters does sound appealing while getting the Mage stronger. In animal forms, you don't need to cast Light spells, but also you don't get benefit of True Light full view, which means the Cartographer + monster sense might be more important to a Sneak build. I am not sure what value of monster you subtract from Sneak% besides monster level, some kind of Alertness value?

Sneak skill + cat form = 60%
Sneak skill + concentration = 95%
Sneak skill + invisibility + cat form + concentration = 60% ... wierd

Author:  Grunz [ Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)


Author:  binaryman [ Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)

I am going from long ago memory on hidden monsters, but I seemed to recall there is some graphic that they are about to appear (a "haze"), if you stop on the tile it will prevent that one from spawning. I tried to do this, but I notice things like to spawn outside your sight radius, so I did not see anything just skipping turns. There seem to be fixed number per level, it tends to trigger a spawn when you kill one (but out of sight). But, there is a maximum total number which is what I found with my Vampire test, beyond which level will be totally clear other than ambushes; and of course those not initially present drop nothing of interest. In fact I tried to use God of Death with these, and I don't think they can trigger +Mana or +Life event either so there is no reason at all to purposely wait for them and attack them usually.

I did discover that spell cast wakes them up, although I seem to be able to cast enchant without them noticing so maybe just directing attack at them causes it. Yeah, I did get the double effect because I knew it was above 80% effective that I was able to pass undetected. I still don't know why my sneak was lowered in cat form, I think it ignored Dexterity and just sets it at 70% base, but then Unlucky -2 Luck subtract 10% from that? Although, following that logic, I don't see how I got to 95% base (it would have been higher) or if it just maxed out at that with 10 Dexterity from Concentration spell (like how trap detect shows max 90%, some other things will show > 100% base in Attributes view).

I did find a surprise, some kind of Mage monster was able to See Invisible, so I didn't sneak past him. Then he stopped all my active effects and I was trapped. haha, surprise! Sneak loses its power as you go deeper, and Invisible doesn't work on everyone, but the more I learn, I think it is still a good way when Mana is still low, to avoid using precious Mana having to remove each monster that blocks the way.

Author:  Grunz [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)


Author:  binaryman [ Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)

I started a new job so I don't have as much time to play and experiment. If you have any change you want me to look at, let me know. I am trying to do some testing of all the features on Laby, but I don't yet know all of them in depth.

Is there some more detailed document source like a wiki? I thought it would be good to put how certain spell/ability works and quirks/tips in a wiki because the front page document is not up to date on all the formulas, but also it is an overview so for each spell/ability its own page (like say spell doesn't work on certain monster or other odd knowledge) easier to update?

Also, do you have any detail on the updated project you were looking at beyond beta? Was it the "Lost Labyrinth DX" I saw in forum (but that post was older)? Are you considering other distribution platform like Steam, or you don't feel it is ready?

Author:  markus [ Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)

We had a wiki once but I deleted it because nobody contributed to it except the developers.
We better update the formulas in the FAQ section. Thats what most players use.

We already applied for steam but they did not want us there. So we are on desura only. Laby is an excellent game but lacks a more polished outfit. We are not graphics artists so this will probably never change. We concentrate on improving the game game itself.

I personally did not get the new version of laby to run on my machine yet.
I do not have much time for development recently because my 20 month old daughter uses all my spare time.
So I do not really know the current state of the new version.

Author:  Xuande [ Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)

Interesting discussion going on here. I'll take some time to read through it all in a bit. I haven't been keeping up to date lately, aside from checking the high scores now and then...still amazing that my Day 1 run is holding up so well (is anyone making attempts with Permadeath on? Cmon, give me some motivation to improve!)

View of Death, while certainly a reason to take Luck, is not the only reason to do so. A significantly reduced botch rate on spells and fewer ambushes were also compelling reasons.

I haven't solved the "fighter" dilemma quite yet myself, but the general method I've been trying is to combine Fighting Styles (Offensive Stance) with high Attack builds. A shame it doesn't stack well with Bloodlust, but it seems to be the only way to scale damage into endgame - Crafting Ice/Fire/etc damage with dual wielding only works until the point when monsters commonly resist those elements.

Author:  binaryman [ Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)

Well, I always play permadeath single character runs. I am trying to win somehow. I normally try to run through levels quickly, I learned pits can be anywhere but usually closer than the stairs to featherfall. I didn't know Luck affects the ambush chance, but I like to spellsong Loneliness to avoid it entirely. I tend to get Free Magic + most of the critical spell schools (I made a grid of what I want in each type). Illusion/Time/High and sometimes Druid/Water/Air, usually Free White Magic (because flaws prevent it normally).

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