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 Post subject: More complaining about mage's weakness
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 7:54 pm 

Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 3:42 pm
Posts: 20
Since 4.2. ambushes got much more dangerous,
spellcasting got more dangerous,
mana got more expensive.

If a flaw is chosen and there is an spell school with the ability to counter this flaw, you can't choose this spellschool any longer, which means this spellschool actually costs 4 Points instead of just 2.
On the other hand gluttony doesn't block "hunter" which is very effective to counter its effects.
If one chooses "fighting in armor", the character gets some armor, if one chooses "casting in armor", the character gets nothing.
If one doesn't chose "fighting in armor", one can compensate later by increasing the attack value. If one doesn't chose "casting in armor" there is no way to compensate for it. Even worse: Since 4.6. much less armor comes without penalty.
In previous Versions dodging helped as an alternative for armor, but now it costs 4 points, which is a high price when playing a mage.

Another danger in 4.6.1. even with monstersense, monsters on tiles next to the character are no longer visible with no sight - a quite effective trap, because you can't choose the appropriate spell to fight the monster.

And - compared to fighters - monsters with immunities against spells appear much earlier in the game.

The conclusion: Mages die young. Once I tried a figther. No real danger until the run and bash got boring. That character never died.

Of course, spell song "loneliness" helps a lot. But if I invest the first few level points in security I will find a strong monster which will block me because I can't get rid of it. If I invest in magical ability the character dies quite early from even minor accidents.

What I would like?
- Less spell schools blocked by flaws. Or as a compromise make a perk to access a spellschool otherwise blocked by flaw. However: If the flaw is countered by a spell it costs mana at least.

- Reduced disadvantages in spell success when armoring a mage.

- Easier access to mana, e.g. by making natural mana once again a perk and distributing more crysoliths.

- Spell songs accessible by free magic

- Dodging costing only 2 points but loosing effectiveness when the armor value is high, making it a skill for lightly armored characters.


Last edited by Team on Sun May 29, 2011 8:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: More complaining about mage's weakness
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:30 am
Posts: 232
Fighting in armor and casting in armor will be combined into the same skill.
We just did not make it for new version.


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 Post subject: Re: More complaining about mage's weakness
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 8:57 am 
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We made some test games here with mages and think it got more difficult but is still playable.
With the right combination mages will never run out of light. So they will be able to attack monsters with the right spell.
Problem was that mages get immortal very easy so we try to make the game more enjoyable playing them.


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 Post subject: Re: More complaining about mage's weakness
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:38 am
Posts: 161
Location: Norway
Mages shouldnt need to rely on very specific skill combinations though... Have you tried the more "obscure" spell schools that people usually dont pick? Illusion has very nifty spells for example (both defensive and offensive and also provides light spells).

I have never had a problem with spell schools being locked because of skills I picked. When they are, it is usually a good reason for that (balance-wise). Like Vegetarian and Druid Magic is because of the "Summon Magic Apple" spell (it would render the flaw basically ignorable since you have a infinite supply of fruit).

Dodging is very powerful. 50% dodge = doubles chance of survival. Even works against Death Gaze or Petrify attacks! So I would say 4 CP is the right price for it.

Natural Mana is too powerful to be worth only 1 CP. It is powerful enough to be worth 2 CP. I usually find that Nexuses always supply me with infinite mana. Leyline Contacts can also help a lot. Maybe we could add a Potion of Mana (similar to Potion of Life). That would make alchemy a lot more useful!

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 Post subject: Re: More complaining about mage's weakness
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:02 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:06 am
Posts: 270
What do you mean? We DO have both potions of healing and potions of mana.
Though there is no guaranteed way to mix any potion. The potion transformation table is random and it's not possible all potions are mixable. So that is still luck based, but did not find a better method yet.

And generally speaking: I always assumed mages to be the characters that normally DON'T take the "no basic magic" flaw.
If they have basic magic , they have access to the shield spell which helps you not to get beaten up, as well as heal, plus a light spell. So all bases are there, It does even provide damage spells.
Alternative: If you don't take poverty, you can take "no basic" again as well as skip water magic. In which case,you will also get the crysolit bonus.

What I agree with, is that the mana skills are far from balanced yet: "Mana" giving only +4 instead of +3 is weaker than "Natural Mana" which works automatically. Still both are crap compared to God of Death.


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 Post subject: Re: More complaining about mage's weakness
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:21 am 
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Quote:
even with monstersense, monsters on tiles next to the character are no longer visible with no sight

That is a bug of course. Not meant that way. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: More complaining about mage's weakness
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:00 pm 
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It's just that I have never found a mana potion ;) (and yes I have played quite a lot, but mostly non-mana users. maybe I just ignored them). Maybe they appear to seldom if that is not the case.

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 Post subject: Re: More complaining about mage's weakness
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:06 am
Posts: 270
We even have 2. 8-) A weak and a strong one, just like healing potions.
With 38 different potions, it takes a while to see them all.
And if they are not identified..
Btw.: If we made alchemy result dependent on both potions, then the table would have 703 entries. That is too much for a player to find out.


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