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 Post subject: Poverty trait: unplayable because of the water
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:59 pm
Posts: 59
Location: Italy
Something should be done about the poverty trait. Something like that is ok if it's meant to drastically raise the difficulty at the beginning, but nothing more.. actually it works just like a russian roulette: you play 3 levels and:
- if you find a bottle of water, you can go on
- if you don't find it, you die
This is not nice because totally luck based; the player can be very good but if he finds a water flask he is automatically dead.

Possibile solutions to this:
A) Poors starts with 0 gold and no items *except* a 7/7 flask of water; non-poors starts with the current stuff (2 torches, loaf of bread, dagger, strong healing potion) *and* some hundreds gold pieces.
B) Humanoids drop more often water flasks.
C) Random pools do not go away when drinked!
D) There are "food traits" (hunter, survival expert), but not "water traits" (except maybe the +3 bonus to speed, but it grants no more than a couple of additional levels to search for that damn flask..).. let's think about a possible one ;-)

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Grunz wrote:
The Laby's challenges are: water, food, light, monsters, traps. If there is one thing on the list your built can't handle, then you surely won't survive the Labyrinth.


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 Post subject: Re: Poverty trait: unplayable because of the water
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:55 am 

Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:10 pm
Posts: 7
Well, if you decide to play a caster, you could always take the water school.

That said, even without water spells I like to start with poverty and outcast. If i find junk to sell and a merchant, and he lets me shop with him then I get to play, otherwise its a reset.

Its harsh I know, but for a ten (ish) minuet investment of a few restarts, you're getting 2 free points!


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 Post subject: Re: Poverty trait: unplayable because of the water
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:54 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:59 pm
Posts: 59
Location: Italy
In my opinion it's not harsh, it's just luck based!
And that's why I think this water problem should be solved.

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Grunz wrote:
The Laby's challenges are: water, food, light, monsters, traps. If there is one thing on the list your built can't handle, then you surely won't survive the Labyrinth.


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 Post subject: Re: Poverty trait: unplayable because of the water
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:30 am
Posts: 232
I kindof agree to that.
Would it help to give poor players an empty water skin?


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 Post subject: Re: Poverty trait: unplayable because of the water
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:10 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:59 pm
Posts: 59
Location: Italy
That would be a perfect solution!

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I'll be back! Khe-he-he!!
Grunz wrote:
The Laby's challenges are: water, food, light, monsters, traps. If there is one thing on the list your built can't handle, then you surely won't survive the Labyrinth.


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 Post subject: Re: Poverty trait: unplayable because of the water
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:59 pm
Posts: 59
Location: Italy
markus wrote:
I kindof agree to that.
Would it help to give poor players an empty water skin?



Hey, why this still hasn't been implemented??
:evil:

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I'll be back! Khe-he-he!!
Grunz wrote:
The Laby's challenges are: water, food, light, monsters, traps. If there is one thing on the list your built can't handle, then you surely won't survive the Labyrinth.


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 Post subject: Re: Poverty trait: unplayable because of the water
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:06 am
Posts: 270
Sorry, we should have posted our decision here I guess. :roll:
I discussed the issue with Markus and it is thus:
If we gave poverty players an empty waterskin, the flaw would be too cheap and would have to be reduced to minor flaw with only -1 points cost.
So instead we removed the luck factor. If you take this flaw now, you need some other method to prevent dehydration.
With cannibal and undead there are two new ways to solve the water problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Poverty trait: unplayable because of the water
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:29 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:59 pm
Posts: 59
Location: Italy
Ok.

But keep in mind that in this way, when I take the poverty trait, I have to run across the first levels without picking anything up trying to find a water flask seller, and 80% of the times I die because of dehydratation. This is not what I call a hard game, it is just a luck based one.
This kind of dehydratation death is just like the "a big boulder hits your head.. you die" Adom message two turns after you enter a dungeon with full hp.
Even doubling/tripling the thirst quenching effect of random pools would be of great help to remove this 100% aleatory killer.

Just my opinion.

_________________
I'll be back! Khe-he-he!!
Grunz wrote:
The Laby's challenges are: water, food, light, monsters, traps. If there is one thing on the list your built can't handle, then you surely won't survive the Labyrinth.


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 Post subject: Re: Poverty trait: unplayable because of the water
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:06 am
Posts: 270
You must have read over this:
Quote:
instead we removed the luck factor

You DO need other ways to get water now.
You can storm through the levels all you like.. no waterskin seller will be there. :twisted:
So it should no longer be possible to get through by pure chance.
You may still get water skins from merchants spawned with the merchant perk, but that means you DID invest points for that, so it's ok imo.
They all have water, and spawn with 20% if you got the perk, I guess that's what you mean by 80% dying. One ought to be able to reach level 2 too, so there is another chance then.
That "lottery" mode only applies to this one skill combination, though I might do something about that still.
So we're not really sorry if someone tried for hours on end to get a small trader water seller to spawn which won't happen any more...
(If they still spawn, then there is an error in the program)
:!: We WANT you do die of thirst if you take poverty and no other feat to help with the water problem. :!:


Last edited by Grunz on Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Poverty trait: unplayable because of the water
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:30 am
Posts: 232
poverty is meant for mages.
there are also a lot a flaws that are meant for fighters.
mages do not die of thirst nor starvation if they choose the right spellschools.
a lot of flaws cannot be taken by mages so this one is for them.


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