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 Post subject: Re: Bugs in 5.0.0 (Extended Version)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:06 am
Posts: 270
Just to make thing clear: the 5.2 compile IS available for download here on this site already now.
Desura users will have to wait a bit yet. (Their update system is a bit more complicated.)


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 Post subject: Re: Bugs in 5.0.0 (Extended Version)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:58 am
Posts: 56
I can get a little farther in this version :lol:

Apparently using Heirloom as a skill produces the following crash just before level 1 begins: http://i.imgur.com/QssHT7r.jpg

I have confirmed that unequipping Heirloom fixes the crash, and I can also confirm this crash happens on the free version (in addition to the recently posted Extended version).

On an unrelated note, its sad that someone has already cleared with the Free Magic+Scroll Lore combination. When things finally get working I'm planning on a Free Magic+Illusion/Time Schools myself, but I'm starting to think Free Magic and Scroll Lore both are bad for the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Bugs in 5.0.0 (Extended Version)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:06 am
Posts: 270
Sigh.. oh well. I DID test each and every spell in the game (those should work reasonably well now), but did not get to go through all the skills systematically too. We were nearly a year away from our last release, so we did it as soon as Markus had the time to do it.
This crash was easy enough to fix - so there will be a 5.0.1 soon I hope.

Scroll Lore and Free Magic are obviously still very strong.. even though I nerfed them and even doubling the cost of SL. Still - getting any two spells each circle is really great, even for 8 CP.
I wonder how he survived all the botches he had to get with "unlucky" flaw while also taking "weak".


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 Post subject: Re: Bugs in 5.0.0 (Extended Version)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:28 am 

Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:58 am
Posts: 56
Just finished the game on a 1-session permadeath run (I did quick-save once to clear up a bug on floor 120, see below).

Starsight still shows a map when it fails. The map shown doesn't save like it would on a successful cast, but it shouldn't show any map at all on a fail.

The monster sprites shown on a Starsight map are often shown upside-down.

On occasion, the map generator would make a floor with no enemies, just frequent/random boulders along with dense walls. Every such time, the exit was in the top left corner surrounded by a gap-less area of walls/boulders. I had to pass through over 30 walls in a row to clear one stage, and another near the end was so bad that I had to cast Alternate Timeline just to have a chance. Example: http://i.imgur.com/apIqj5i.jpg

Attempting to cast a spell song while Time Stop is active sometimes messes up the Time Stop counter, leading to infinite Time Stop turns. This is very exploitable, but can be fixed by right-clicking the Time Stop buff when it happens.

On Floor 120 of the run, for reasons I didn't notice, the display for my health and mana disappeared, as well as the health/mana/speed displays on my data screen. I went through most of the floor like this, and they were still blank except on turns where I cast a healing spell (and then only health showed up for a turn). Quick-saving and loading fixed the problem.

More of a balance issue, but during the course of this run, I gained 9 Heartstones from the Merchant skill. Making them cost more didn't deter me, and I ended up selling most of them in the end (it was a no-death run). Still, there's no reason I should be able to buy nine of them, that's crazy. :o


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 Post subject: Re: Bugs in 5.0.0 (Extended Version)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:58 am
Posts: 56
As far as the run itself:

Getting Luck to 20 fairly early (after Spell Circle was maxed, and LP/MP were in the 40s-50s or so) is totally worth it. Fizzles were very few and far between, so were ambushes, and I survived the two times I got targeted by View of Death. I didn't get much in the way of trap dodges, but with a Dexterity of 1 until the last few floors, I didn't expect many. The few Hourglasses that were sold to me were my main answer to the non-rune, mana sapping traps.

First Aid isn't needed provided I take Heal+True Healing (which I did, but not Ease Pain), I picked it to help in the early game, when mana would be tight. It was clutch on the final floor though, where basically every hex had two-damage fire and I didn't have Rain or any other anti-fire spell/equip. I had a stack of 23 Healing Herbs, and they put in work as I took my 200ish square trek to the last exit.

Mystic Attack is still great despite the nerfing (the Tunnel bugfix, and now some enemies resist it, notably Angel of Death). Mana-free killing is great, and there are still many endgame enemies where it puts in work. Being able to take Heal over Whirlwind is another nice perk.

Time Magic was great. I would suggest that Time Stop is in need of some kind of nerf, limiting the casts per floor to 3 or so would be my suggestion. Yes, it eats up mana, but when you have the mana to spare its just too good. I still don't use the Teleport/Anchor Teleport spells, as I'm not sure what their value is.

Illusion Magic put in work too, as usual. The toolkit of Vanish+Open+Invisibility+Counterspell is hard to do without.

Elder Magic is probably a bad idea in any build that uses Syphon...certainly it helped, but I never felt it was crucial. There's probably a better way to spend those four points, maybe Natural Mana+Paladin if the focus is on conserving mana (I already had Mana and Wisdom).

The new rules regarding targeting a monster (you must be able to see monsters with single target spells) make Spellsongs even more useful than before (in 4.9.0 it basically acted as rune immunity for me), since you can resort to the Ghosts song when you've "spotted" a still-invisible enemy.

Free Magic:
1) Magic Apple - allows for Vegetarian+Gluttony
2) Featherfall - free 1cp perk
3) Heal - because I took No Basic Magic and don't need Whirlwind with Mystic Attack
4) Heal Poison - still extremely good
5) Walk on Water - free 1cp perk
6) Flame Burst - filler, you could make the case for 5) Portal + 6) Freeze Water, but Walk on Water > Freeze Water when alone, and Portal is redundant with the Merchant that sells a Portal staff.
7) Tunnel - ended up being filler to my surprise, but I don't see what would have been any better.
8) True Light - missing Dark Mana sucks, but this was a must-have. I had half-sight with no sight skills, and didn't want the tedium relying on a skill like Wolf Shape for my sight needs.
9) Star Sight - In its new form, its as good as Cartography. Replacing a 2cp perk I always take is great.
10) True Healing - I actually rarely used this, Heal+First Aid+Vampiric Aura was plenty. Penetration probably would have put in more work.
11) Vampiric Aura - Now that Quickening is rightly nerfed into the ground, this stands out.
12) Star Fire - My damage spell of choice.
13) Self-Hypnosis - Insurance. I probably didn't need it, but nice to have.
14) Syphon - Star Money is tempting, but Syphon wins runs.
15) Disintergration Field - Responsible for blowing up the exit to Floor 50. Panic ensued when my attempt at Alternate Timeline failed, but thankfully I had already been to Floor 51, so my Hourglass saved me. Mostly, this put in work blowing up boulders (I got a Pickaxe really late, somewhere after the first 100 floors) and killing stuff immune to Star Fire/Mystic Attack.

I'm still very befuddled at the #2 high score entry...no Leylines as a pure spellcaster? Unlucky too? I don't want to falsely accuse anyone of save-scumming, but I'm not sure I could pilot that build past the midgame. Granted, he did have the ability to deal with traps (I just set them off...including the axe traps that went well over 100 damage!), but if for any reason he hits a mana drain trap and doesn't have an Hourglass/MP restore, that's game over. Hitting an Axe Trap with Weak means dying unless he consumes a Heartstone.

EDIT: Whenever I've tried a physical build so far, the hotkey for First Aid hasn't worked (I have to hit 'K' and select it each time). I haven't narrowed down why this is, though. Also, I'm getting fumbles using the Mastery: Longswords with an Ice Sword+Kite Shield equipped. I assume the shield is being recognized as a non-sword weapon somehow?


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 Post subject: Re: Bugs in 5.0.0 (Extended Version)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:06 am
Posts: 270
Well, he had merchant skill too, so you we can assume he had a stack of hourglasses and stone hearts too. I'm also pretty sure I know how the got his mana.
Limits would be that with "show traps" he'd only be able to find 80% of the traps. Of course with spell songs , rune traps can be avoided. And Scroll Lore in addition to Free Magic might have got him the room to take Missile protection spell to prevent death from Axe Traps. Or he just used up one of the hearts. Or always had reincarnation running.

The many hearts problem came from me removing the unique flag from the Heart of Stone. This was needed to prevent the "pineapple bug". This came because casting Cheat Death while there already existed a heart somewhere in the game (for example a trader inventory). What I ought to have done too though was to remove the heart from the guaranteed items and make it appear only randomized and with a fittingly low probability.
Actually other powerful items should not be guaranteed either, like the hourglass or the staves.

The upside down monsters is the kind of bug I'd expect with the new compiler - the graphic routines have been changed after all.
The broken labyrinth layout though - whoa! We did not fiddle around with the labyrinth generation between 4.9 and 5.0 and no reason to suspect basic logic might change in such a drastic way.
I have yet no clue, how, or why these happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Bugs in 5.0.0 (Extended Version)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:58 am
Posts: 56
Yeah, I'd have no problems with a Merchant nerf, its probably deserved.

I got a "broken" layout (no monsters, areas full of walls/boulders with some open areas) three or four times during the run, and Time Magic saved me every time. I have no idea how a non-magic build would be able to do anything on those floors, and its kind of killing my motivation to get in a No Magic clear. I'm testing ideas out, but not really playing too far with it.

And on the nitpicking side of things, notice that the sprite my character is using in that screenshot isn't the sprite listed for my high score. I don't ever use the ninja sprite.


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 Post subject: Re: Bugs in 5.0.0 (Extended Version)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:00 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:06 am
Posts: 270
Yes, that's and off-by-one error. Laby starts counting the sprites with 0 instead of 1 since 5.0 and Markus will have to change the script displaying the scores.
That's also the reason some players don't have en icon at all, they used the very first sprite with the number 0.


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 Post subject: Re: Bugs in 5.0.0 (Extended Version)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:58 am
Posts: 56
I just noticed this:

"- made spell success rate grow only 1% for scroll+free magic"

In my run, I'm fairly certain that success rate was going up by 4% per casting, not 1%. Normally it would go up by 5%, so maybe something got flipped in the code to make the rate increase by 5% and decrease by 1%, instead of just increasing 1%?

EDIT: Hah, guess what highscore entry has permadeath off? I'm loving those new tags!


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 Post subject: Re: Bugs in 5.0.0 (Extended Version)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:37 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:58 am
Posts: 56
Another bug, I have reason to believe this one is being caused by Ring Mastery just before the game begins: http://i.imgur.com/Ucw3AUa.jpg

It happens only on occasion, and on a build that has Ring Mastery as its only random inventory skill (no wands/gems/scrolls/etc). I have a feeling one/some of the values being generated for a ring are causing the problem, or perhaps a ring in combination with my No Magic flaw.

Also, I started getting this crash repeatedly every 1-3 melee kills: http://i.imgur.com/ua2tdCm.jpg

The run started normally, but somewhere around floor 10 or so, I used Magic Lamp->Wish for Experience->Monster trap, got out of the middle, and killed a Kobold on the corner of the horde as I was leaving, which triggered this error. I kept getting it every 1-3 kills after that until I got fed up (saving/reloading did not help, recovery did not help).


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