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lostlabyrinth.com • View topic - binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)
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 Post subject: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:26 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:12 pm
Posts: 28
I last played version 4.013c, and I am coming back to see if I can beat 5.2. My previous power build was this:

Constitution - extra life
Arcane Power - more spell power from casting it to mastery
Leylines Contact - start each level with mana refreshed
Magic Training - access level 3 spells at the start
Spell Power - more powerful spells
Mana - more starting and mana gain
Sorcery - no spell failures
Elder Magic - cheaper spells
Enchanter - better enchantments; cast all at once
Unbound Magic - access all types
Udjat Eye - quicker gains (3 extra levels)

Negatives: Poverty, Magic weakness, Forsaken, Outcast, Illiterate, No Basic Magic

My strategy is based on avoiding what keeps killing me: bad luck hehe. So, my build was based around being able to guarantee certain things like food and water spells (in case I don't find provisions in the dungeon), recharging magic (in case I can't get to or don't find the nexus), and making sure I had the levels to get certain spells before going too deep (Udjat Eye).

Some of these have changed now so I am learning again. Enchanter, Unbound Magic, Udjat Eye no longer exist as such. However, Experienced may do what Udjat Eye used to do (better since you get it immediately?). Unbound Magic I think is now called Free Magic. I like to combine magic apple and refresh in my low slots. Also looks like spells that hit all the monsters on a level cost an item now, so no more spamming Armageddon :mrgreen:

I see other (new?) things like abilities for a Leader that work only with multiple players. I have not tried 2+ players nor permadeath option, so I am not sure how it works yet. It looks like there are some new perks so there is more to try. I do love all of the combinations you can put together here and I think fighter-type builds are more viable now (perhaps with certain other abilities).


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 Post subject: Re: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:25 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:12 pm
Posts: 28
I am starting to remember some combos. So much fun! Trying out all sorts of combinations...

Leylines Contact + Acolyte = 3 mana recharges/level, 1 being any time (like during an emergency where you can't get out). More mana/level also means you can kill all of the things, in case you have a God power that triggers (like Death God = even more mana!)

Experienced + Magic Training + Free Magic = whatever spells you want up to the 7th level. It's kind of my personal favorite because it gives a great deal of control over the first stages when you are weak to start. It works well with also Elementary Magic, or really any schools you add.

It looks like Sorcery works on Free Magic spells provided you choose other schools (is that a bug?). I forgot, but it gave me 21 crysolits which is really important when max mana is low at the start.

I didn't remember Magic Apple giving some Water as well as Nutrition, so I guess the need for Refresh is less now. I still like to have both if I can, but I guess I wouldn't spent 2 points on Water Magic just to have it.

I had Cartography + Earth Sense + Monster Sense, but what is odd is the map doesn't work in that case. I guess that is a bug? I prefer the map since I can see zoomed out, but I like to plan ahead so Cartography is good. I get a strong light spell immediately so it's less of an issue to see the monsters.

Arcane Writings + Scroll Lore looks somewhat attractive, but it's pricey and random which spells you get. Perhaps if it let you learn 1 spell/level (as you get 1 scroll/level), but since you can only get 1 spell per circle from this, it's going to be rather limiting.

I have a theory why fighter builds can't win the game, and I do see most of the top spots are magic-enabled, although curiously the most frequently chosen flaw is "No Magic". It is because of the instant death or other nasty effects that you can no longer safely engage in melee at higher levels. Statistically speaking, even if you are 95% safe (luck?) it only takes one time to lose. I think you cannot be 100% safe unless you can teleport around or magic kill at a distance.


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 Post subject: Re: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:30 am
Posts: 233
I see you played around a lot with the game :D

The only reason why "no magic" is the most taken flaw is that new palyers close to always start with the fighter template. Fighters are a lot easier at first but mages get a lot more powerful in the long run.
So most players that get very far are powerful spellcasters.
But to get used to the game a fighter is the better choice.

The combination of the "sense" skills has to be checked again for next release.

Experienced replaced the udjat eye, that is correct. Because it sucks when a thief can steal a skill you paid for. We want all skills to have a permanent effect on the game.


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 Post subject: Re: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:06 am
Posts: 277


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 Post subject: Re: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:07 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:12 pm
Posts: 28
I will retest the combination, but I believe I was not getting the "not enough light" message since I did cast a light spell anyway to see. I use cartographer, maybe a crutch, even though some spells like the star magic one sees the whole map, BUT it doesn't persist in the auto-map I believe, so the problem I have is remembering what the spell told me. The cartographer, on the other hand, lets me keep checking the map. Shouldn't the spells map data persist in the auto-map as well? Like if I knew the monster locations through a spell, I wish that was saved for me so I could find the right path.

How does level affect the map size? I notice they get bigger and bigger as you go.

My current build has after testing things become this:

Constitution; Arcane Power (critical); Leylines Contact (critical); Magic Training; Mana; Sorcery; Elder Magic (critical); Illusion Magic; Air Magic (critical); Druid Magic; Spell Songs; Free Magic (critical); First Aid; Cartography; Experienced; Wisdom (critical); Mystic Attack

My natural power at this moment is only 1, yet the circle 15 spells are at 19 power (I have blessing of the stars for +3 to everything). Apparently it can go above 15 after all, even without the skill that allows +5 maximum power? The Arcane Power is absolutely critical I guess to go over 15.

Now, I don't know what the HP of the stronger monsters is, but I encountered a centipede not that deep with 150+ health I think. I started to think, I cannot sit and trade shots with them; the Air domain gives the highest damage spell which is Disintegration, maybe at Power 30 or something it can 1-2 shots kill them, but then I thought with really large levels you are racing to the exit before you get overwhelmed. Instead you need to clear a path with Blow Away or something, you don't even care to kill them anymore just get them out of the way. So I use Vanish to jump closer to exit (on huge maps) even though it is a risk of Monster at the end point, then Portal x2 to open up some walls, and Blow Away (unknown if they can resist I haven't used a lot) to clear a path to exit. Step on exit so it can't be blocked by spawns and if needed use Laylines or Extend all enchantments. White Protection (so I focus on maxing Mana), Song of Loneliness (no Ambush surprises), and strongest Light spell and Invisibility.

I suspect Xuande was using Illusion magic to Vanish, and Time magic to Teleport (and other things it does). The challenge with large level really is you have to take many shots to kill each monster, as you do this monsters spawn so it is a losing battle. It becomes impossible to walk the level safely after while, so these relocation magics are unfortunately the only strategy I think that works. I think the Cloud of Death will not clear monsters deep down, even at very high power, similarly even Pestilence is not going to clear the enemies if their HP is high enough. I don't know the equation for the Mystic Attack vs. the dungeon level, but since it scales I suspect it can eventually surpass spells? With Regeneration it becomes free and it has range and can be used even with Pacifist. It is a matter of finding strongest damage when you get really deep.

This is why a Fighter type really cannot win, although I know you would like it to be possible. You just cannot do enough damage to offset the monster spawn rate. The only valid strategy for level 100+ I think is to teleport/vanish and hope you get closer to the exit so you only deal with few monsters. I suspect spawn occurs every turn, or does it occur with % chance every turn?

I do not know if this means spawning is making it too hard, or we should just spawn 50-100% more monsters initially and not continue spawning? In other words static challenge (still harder as we go deeper). I think some people want to grind the monsters for loot, but this only makes sense on the lower levels.

What do you think about this? I am not sure if only the certain Magic strategy can win, but I suspect it is so. I don't know at what level strongest monster appears, or what the highest HP/average HP of monsters are, but only specific skills allow you to get to Power level that can deal with it.


Also side note: I am a software tester in real life, so I am working hard to break the game for you :D
I program also but only Windows and I know you do cross-platform, so my solution doesn't work for you (to fix some mouse glitch in window mode). I do want this game to get a lot of exposure, so I am trying to have some YouTube "let's play" folks create some gameplay videos - since you only have 1 video found (!) when I searched. You could look at Steam or other platform to distribute this game. Maybe you are not ready yet, bit I want as many people to discover this game as possible!!


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 Post subject: Re: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:52 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:12 pm
Posts: 28
I did buy extended version just now :mrgreen:
One thing I did not know is, which monsters and other things are in extended version (I know the skills, they were listed before, but other things I do not know).

You deserve it, for putting forth the effort. I am glad you are still actively developing it. I was afraid you might have abandoned it since I had last played it actively some months ago, but was not the case luckily.

I hear you have some new versions coming with new features? Maybe you will also go mobile? I look forward to seeing the development, and I appreciate your engagement to the community for ideas and balance/fixes.

Also to joke: for serious players it is NOT a coffeebreak roguelike haha! I am playing hours of it at a time because it's quite addicting.


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 Post subject: Re: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:31 am 
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 Post subject: Re: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:12 pm
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 Post subject: Re: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:13 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: binaryman's Journal (and other stuff)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:25 am 

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